A Change of Heart

Meet Chris Johnston, a 49-year-old ex Minister who now works as a Loan Officer in the banking industry. We had an interesting interview on his move from faithful to faithless.

Hello, Chris Johnston! I believe you mentioned at some point that you were a minister for 15 years, but suddenly had a change of heart and turned to Atheism. Why did you pick Atheism over Christianity?

Wow, let's jump right in! Okay! Honestly, it's not like I put Christianity on one side and measured it against Atheism. The two are not in that kind of competition. And it was hardly sudden.

I became a Christian at the age of 14, and "answered the call to preach" at 15. It was one way to be different, to get some attention for a geeky, skinny kid. My first sermon took hours to prepare and the whole thing lasted ten minutes! I spent the next few years preparing for the ministry. I started out as a Southern Baptist (largest protestant denomination in the country at that time) but switched to independent Baptist after my first year of college. That meant I was no longer affiliated with Southern Baptists, but was a member of a church that was very loosely associated through a common string of doctrines. This was extremely fundamentalistic. In fact, to us, Jerry Falwell was quite a compromiser, the worst insult you could give to another Christian, in our eyes!

I spent some time at a now-defunct bible "college" in Tennessee where I met my first wife. In time we had two children, I finally graduated from an accredited college with a bachelor's degree in Theology and a minor in history. During that time I pastored a rural Mississippi church. As it turned out, the church members were so bigoted, they not only didn't want blacks, they also didn't want poor whites!

Following my graduation, I matriculated at a Southern Baptist seminary. About one year into my accelerated program, I realized I was in the wrong line of work. Somehow they were all talking about a relationship with Jesus as if it were actually a personal friendship, and I realized that I had never had that and didn't even know how it worked. I had been seeking for years for a deeper emotional and spiritual understanding, but somehow, there were no answers to prayer.

All this conflict gave me a great deal of difficulty with my personal life, so my wife took the kids home to momma and daddy, and we eventually divorced.

I continued as a seeker for some time, trying to find what I felt I had missed out on. I eventually discovered "Atlas Shrugged," by Ayn Rand. This led me to begin thinking about the nature of belief, faith, and evidence.

I realized that since 95% of the worlds' Christian church members actually live their daily lives as if there were no god, I would stop living the lie. I finally fully embraced atheism just two or three years ago, and came out in the last year or two.

How was it a way to get attention? Did you feel alone, and decided that, by becoming Christian, you'd at least have God to "keep you company"?
Tell us more about how you feel about Jerry Falwell, please.
How are "95% of the worlds' Christian church members actually live their daily lives as if there were no god"?

Good questions.
I was a geeky high schooler, 6'1" and 150 lbs, and didn't really fit in, in a small town where I had not been born. I had no athletic ability and our school was so small there was really only the "in" crowd and the hoodlums.

So my best friend and I were the "preacher boys," which got a lot of attention from the church and the older crowd. And no, it really had nothing to do with loneliness, I never really felt lonely growing up.

I didn't care much for Falwell and his "silent majority." This had more to do with what we considered his "doctrinal weakness" than anything else. We were more in the Bob Jones University crowd, although the "uppercrust" pretensions of that place were a little offputting for country boys who liked country and bluegrass music.

With time, I came to appreciate Falwell and others for what they are (were). Evangelicals who believe that it was their job to bring about Christian law. They pushed Scientific Creationism (that was its name in those days, not ID) and wanted to elect their kind of Christians to school boards and local, state, and national office. Eventually Falwell's popularity faded and I hadn't thought about him for years by the time he assumed room temperature.

Most Christians live their lives as if God did not exist. How else can you explain the response to Matthew 6?

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

And yet Christians go about their lives working, saving, paying for health insurance, etc. because it's STUPID NOT TO! It is against human life to take no thought for tomorrow, and this is what the Bible is teaching here.

There are a great many more passages that come to mind. Remember how Jesus is reported to have said things like "turn the other cheek," and "blessed are the meek?" When was the last time you went on a Christian web forum and identified yourself as a satisfied atheist? Lots of love there, usually about the time they realize they cannot win the argument!

Certain In-Laws who shall remain nameless are a good case in point. They love their church. They take discipleship classes. She fills in on piano. He teaches Sunday School. If we go to the lake to visit with them, it's always us disrespecting them because we won't go to church with the. In fact, you could say they never miss a Sunday.

Unless the Chiefs are in town (season tickets). Or they have a trip somewhere. Then they are blissfully unaware that churches exist and are in session on Sunday morning! Is it just me, or is something missing here?

This is a fun thing. It feels good to say some of these things. I just tried to access your blog, though, and got an error message. Let me know when you start posting some of it.

Good answers, Chris.

What is Falwell's "silent majority" and "doctrinal weakness," in your opinion? What's the "Bob Jones University crowd"? How do you feel about Scientific Creationism being pushed into schools?

I'd also like to add something. Would you say that the lack of dedication to Christianity on the part of Christians was a comparatively strong influencing factor in your move to Atheism, or was it comparatively minor as opposed to other factors?

Wow, did I say "silent majority?" That was a term coined by Richard Nixon in a speech from Novermber 3, 1969 at the height of the Watergate scandal.

What I meant to say, was "Moral Majority," an evangelical-leaning-toward-fundamentalist political organ founded by Jerry Falwell in 1979. Wikipedia has an excellent article concerning the Moral Majority. We were of a stricter stripe, doctrinally speaking, than Falwell's church. We thought he was a "compromiser," the worst thing our crowd could ever call someone who was, in truth, as close to us doctrinally as anyone could be. However, we were a little closer to "Hardshell" baptists than anything. A Hardshell Baptist is one who believes in Calvinist predestination, that God's plan all along was to create the world and everything in it, and plan from the beginning to redeem only his chosen few. Today I recoil at this idea of a god more than almost any other. It makes him seem like a petulant child as well as a sadistic thug.

Had I continued in that type of church, I shudder to think what may have happened. We were close to endorsing abortion provider murders, clinic bombings, and the like. In those days, a very slick and well-done video series was making the rounds: Francis Schaffer's "How Shall We Then Live?" He popularized the notion that abortion was a new Holocaust more terrible than the slaughter of six million Jews, not to mention millions of retarded, handicapped, homosexuals, and others.

Bob Jones University was founded in the 1920s by, of all people, an evangelist by the name of Bob Jones, Sr. Go figure! It's a fundamentalist institution which has added a veneer of classical culture. BJU (the University where you are likely to get a BJ but not tell anyone) graduates tend to have a condescending attitude toward graduates of other Christian schools, even fundamentalist ones. They liken themselves to Harvard. They look down on all manner of popular culture, including country and bluegrass music, preferring classical, etc.

Presidency of the university has passed to the fourth generation Jones under Stephen Jones, son of Bob Jones III. Of course god approves of this particular method of passing the mantle in order to ensure continuation of the legacy.

I'd rather think about it than feel about it. Feelings about it simply elevate emotionalism to the place that faith occupies in religionists. That being said, I am passionately against anyone attempting to appropriate a place akin to science for their mythology.

http://www.venganza.org/ is an excellent answer for the push to instill "Intelligent Design," (ID) which is "Scientific Creationism", which is the creation myth dressed up in scientific language. ID was being pushed in Kansas by the Kansas Board of Education. The method they were using was insidious. By redefining science, they hoped to make room for supernatural explanations for natural phenomena. The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" was an attempt to show how silly it was to take one supernatural explanation over any other. It has since become a cultural phenomenon, and you can see one of its posters at the top of my blog, http://faith-in-action.blogspot.com.

This was proven in court in the case of the Dover, PA school board. U.S. District Judge John E. Jones ruled that ID is not science and cannot be used in the public school. All of this is fascinating reading and should be required.

And I would say the lack of dedication on the part of Christians was simply an aggravating factor. I spent many years defying that trend, looking into mysticism, spending hour after hour praying for something more than I had experienced. I know now, that the prayers were never heard outside that room.

Speaking of Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority, how do you feel about Pat Robertson's revival of the group under the name of the Moral Majority Coalition? How do you generally feel about Pat Robertson? Would you liken him to a terrorist such as Osama Bin Laden, like Ethical Atheist did, or not? Why?

Hmm... you said you were close to "endorsing abortion provider murders." I'm sure you meant "endorsing abortion-provided murders"? What'd you mean there?
Here's some things I'm going to assume about the BJU crowd, given the time and Christian standing:

Definitely an all-male university. Since they weren't allowed to have sex before marriage, that's why they'd commit homosexual activity "under the table," in reference to your BJ pun. They were tied up in the past, possibly with Gregorian music, and always deemed tradition to be better, even though they never gave modern music a chance.

Am I correct? Please tell me what I got wrong.

Anyway, back to the questions... can you give our readers an example of ID "preachings" dressed with science?

I think it's specious at best to lump Pat Robertson, who engages in offensive religious speech, with Osama bin Laden, who murders innocent men, women, and children in order to creat terror and achieve his political or religious aims. Do I think he would like to see a theocracy here in the U.S. under his own brand of Xianity? (Wow spell it like that and it sounds eerily like insanity) Of course he would. Would he stoop to terrorism to achieve it? Well, the man isn't stupid or crazy. Religiously, I believe he's about at the same level of fanaticism, except that Islam makes men like OBL heroes and the New Testament is a more passive document.

No, I meant what I said. At that time, killing an abortion providing doctor was being likened, in more extreme churches, to an act of defending the defenseless, where we would use lethal force to stop someone from raping a baby, for instance. It was a scary precipice.

Almost all of it. *Laughs* It's a co-ed christian university started in the 1920's by fundamentalists. Their hatred of folk, country, etc. is simply an affectation of culture. It's very off-putting. And the blowjob thingy has nothing to do with homosexuality. It's just that the culture is so very strict, it's easy to see where hypocrisy can creep in.

A Google search on "Intelligent Design" should yield plenty of instances.

So, Flora, I am enjoying this interview. I am curious to know more about you, too. I understand you are in high school in Toronto? And that you were born in Iraq?

What can you tell me about your life so far? Are you truly atheist? And I see a great deal of difficulty in your relationship with your father. Do you feel more free to resist since you live in Canada, instead of a Muslim country? And how has the tube of lip gloss thing gone? Did everything come out all right?

Can you give the readers a reason as to how it's not passive?
What do you mean by "an affectation of culture"? Do you mean a false hatred or dislike of sorts?
Seriously, Chris, that ID search almost made me throw up. Ramen!

Yup. Born in Iraq. No, I'm not taking school in Toronto, but very near there.
My life's going quite good. I'm working on a lot of social activist projects with a Christian service animator (believe me, she's a great lady), and a buddy of mine, who also happens to be named Chris. We're hoping to get our projects known on a global scale someday. He's really such a great guy, and he's only in 10th grade!
Yes, I am truly an Atheist. Funny thing is, people thought I'd be depressed after giving up my strong beliefs in God. But let me tell you, that was when my depression decreased on such a large scale. I've learned to live life to live, not to live life to hide. I can just be me, and go through life helping others without having to worry what's going to happen to me. And I can't wait to see the impact I have on other people's lives.
I do feel more able to resist. It wasn't about whether I'm a female anymore when we came to Canada - it was about the individual. Though women still have a path to walk here, it's way fucking better than being most places in the Middle East.
The lip gloss thing has gone well. Wow, I post everything about me at ATWKS, haha. But I thought it was funny and so I'd share it. But wow, it really was a drag. I don't want to go into details about HOW I managed to get it out.
And Chris, I'm really enjoying the interview too!

Modern terrorists take an active role in trying to achieve their aim. For the Islamist, I believe that aim is total Shari'a domination of the world.

Pat Robertson would like the same thing (except with his interpretation of the moral code, his brand of Xianity in charge) but would never stoop to blowing up innocent people to achieve his aim. I attribute that partly to the nature of the New Testament (even though he twists it when it suits him) but mostly to the secular society the United States has always had. We have always believed that we had to convince someone, not threaten them, to get them to truly convert.

The New Testament is a very passive book. In fact, it's pacifist. When jesus simply tells his followers to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who "despitefully" use them, it's obviously a pacifist book. How neoconservatives and the religious right make Jesus into some sort of warrior god is beyond me.

Funny, the differences between the teachings of Jesus (whose existence I tentatively stipulate as a holdover from so many years of indoctrination) and the teachings of the modern evangelica churches.

Jesus on public "righteousness"(Gospel of Matthew chapter 6):

1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men (A)to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they (B)may be honored by men (C)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4so that your giving will be in secret; and (D)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Church practice: big deal about giving, huge deal about good works, everyone goes to church to see and be seen. Many churches preach about a success gospel that says if you are successful it is evidence God has blessed you.

Jesus on Prayer (Matt. 6):

5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to (E)stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners (F)so that they may be seen by men (G)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6"But you, when you pray, (H)go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and (I)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their (J)many words.
8"So do not be like them; for (K)your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

Church practice: oral prayers in public, prayers written down and read at public gatherings (including a recent Barack Obama gathering I attended)

Jesus on wealth (Matt. 6):

19"(Y)Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
20"But store up for yourselves (Z)treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;
21for (AA)where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Church practice: back to the success gospel, plus for instance the Roman Catholic church being the wealthiest nation (Vatican City-state) per capita in the world, amassing fortunes in gold, art, etc. looted from around the world (through the demanding of tribute from its churches and the looting of the new world gold in the 16th-20th centuries)

Finally, Jesus on the use of force (Matthew 5):

38"(AZ)You have heard that it was said, '(BA)AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but (BB)whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your [g]shirt, let him have your [h]coat also.
41"Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.
42"(BC)Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43"(BD)You have heard that it was said, '(BE)YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR (BF)and hate your enemy.'
44"But I say to you, (BG)love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Church practice: lawsuits, articles of incorporation, the preaching of armed conflict, even though Jesus specifically said a Xian should not defend themselves. Making Jesus to be some kind of avenging angel who leads armies on America's behalf. In this way many Xians are more rooted in the god of the Old Testament than in the New Testament.

What's the difference between the God of the Old Testament and that of the New Testament in your eyes?

Wow. Big question. I won't go into chapter and verse citations, but here are some high points.
In the Old Testament, he is an angry God, jealous and petulant about his followers' attentions. This is a basic cultural ideal from millenia ago, "Our God is better than your god." Many places in the OT, Yahweh is considered the best god, but the existence of other gods is not called into question. He smites unbelievers, conquers his enemies, and calls for wholesale slaughter of men, women, and children when conquering. This is still cited in evangelical churches as being a healthy thing for Israel.

Where God's power is wholesale in the OT (parting the Red Sea, making the sun stand still, flooding the earth, etc.), in the New Testament, his miracles are retail, through Jesus (healing the sick one at a time, making fish and loaves feed a multitude). One wonders why, if Jesus could do these things, he didn't just end suffering altogether.

Where the OT God is very similar to other gods of the time, i.e. warlike and with a great deal of human failings (anthropomorphism), the NT God is a "God of love." "God is love." In the NT, the claim is that Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world, including all in the past and everything going forward until the end of time. Kind of an odd deal. God makes the rules that we cannot keep, which makes us evil and sinful, then pays the price for us. Hmmm sounds like a gospel sermon but the oddity of it all just makes me wonder what I was ever thinking to be involved with it.

If it had to make sense or require evidence, it wouldn't be faith, would it?

Interesting answers.

Any last words for our readers?

I guess my final word would be an exhortation to reason. We must, in the final analysis, think for ourselves and make our own decisions. One great way to do this is to ask better questions. What if I haven't necessarily been taught the truth? What would happen if I changed my mind?

Demand evidence. Think it through. Make up your own mind.

Flora, thanks for the opportunity to vent!
Chris

Chris has a blog called Faith In Action and a website on bonsai.

The Roaming Buffalo

Meet Buffalo Brown, "a proud native son of the USA accepting the hospitality of Canada; a Nam Vet who is a capitalist, socialistic, Libertarian" who also describes himself as an Atheist and hedonist. He's the 2nd interviewee on ATWKS' interviews with me. Below, his answers are formatted in italics, and my questions in bold.

What state did you formerly live in the USA? How was your transition from said place to Manitoba, Quebec?
When did you become an Atheist, and why? Why did you realize yourself as a "hedonist"?

Please tell us about some of your experiences in Vietnam, seeing as you're a 'nam vet.

In your blogger profile, you wrote "above all else I value freedom. Freedom is a delicate flower that is difficult to cultivate and so very easy to destroy." Can you expand on this, regarding how you've seen freedom being cultivated and destroyed relevant to something that heavily impacted you?

You asked a few tough questions there, young lady.
1) My last state-side home was in Missouri - Kansas City to be exact. I have lived ever where from California to Massachusetts.
2) The transition to Manitoba is far from complete. I can only tell you that the summers are too short and the winters too long and cold. I hate cold.
3) The journey from believer to Atheist took a number of years to travel. After years of studying religion and philosophy, after years of thinking about what I had read, I found it impossible to believe in a deity. It wasn't a choice. One doesn't choose to believe or disbelieve.
4) I believe that life is about living. We truly live by experiencing all life has to offer - the pleasures, the pains, the sorrow, the joys, the work, the learning. That is the GP-rated version. 5) Vietnam was a life-altering experience. It was endless hours of hard work, lonliness and boredom juxtaposed with periods of mind numbing, adrenalin-charged danger. It is something that stays with you forever.
6) Unfortunately I don't see freedom being cultivated. I see it only being taken away. I believe very strongly that every adult should be free to do exactly what they want to do as long as it does not physically interfere with someone else enjoying those same freedoms.

Missouri sounds familiar. If you could describe it in 1 word, apart from home, what would it be and why?

I don't think of Missouri as home. I've lived in far too many places to consider any one of as my home.

Well I was asking you, sir, if you could describe Missouri in one word and why, hah.

I am well aware of that, ma'am. How do you describe the ever changing beauty of the Ozark Hills in one word? Have you ever sat on a bluff over looking the convergence of two very different rivers, one clear, shallow and fast moving and the other deep, slow and muddy, while a full summer moon casts its magic? How does one describe the beauty, the aromas, the kiss of a night breeze and the sounds of night creatures moving through the woods in one word. How does one adequately describe love with one word and one word only?

Well, there are broad terms you can use, but I sort of get ya. I tell you, if I had to describe my current town in 1 word, it would be quite hard, and not for positive reasons. *laughs*

One word descriptions are very limiting as the image that is conjured in the mind of the reader is often quite different from what the writer meant.

You're still getting adjusted to Manitoba, eh? What do you think of the culture and the people of Manitoba? How does it differ from that of your other homes, such as Missouri?

I don't judge all of Manitoba based on my observations of this small section where we live. It is a heavily Mennonite area. I have not been able to engage any of them in conversation. I get the impression that if you're not Mennonite you are not only an outsider, but for all intents and purposes you don't exist. I have never lived anywhere that I could not get people to talk to me.

What are some other things about Manitoba that really turn you off? And no, not in a sexual way. Though I highly doubt that a city would be able to sexually turn anyone on sexually, unless you were sadistic... sorry, I got caught in the moment there. Also, do you have anything good to say about Manitoba? Because if you do, do tell us.

This part of Manitoba is a very peaceful place. The threat level is virtually zero. I am not uncomfortable with leaving the house unlocked. I feel no need to have a pistol within easy reach. (I sent it home before I crossed the border. A good thing since they searched our saddlebags when we crossed.)
The medical system here seems to work fairly well. The cleanliness of the environment blows me away.
Other than the cold of winter and the lack of social contact it isn't a bad place.

What was the most significant piece that you've read which helped you build a strong lead toward Atheism?

It would have to be the Bible - specifically the King James version of the Bible.

Why was it specifically the King James version that impacted you in a negative manner?

That was the version of the bible we used. The outcome would have been the same if I had read a Catholic bible or any of the newer translations they offer now days.

I'll say, you've got some very interesting views on life. Must be the "with age comes wisdom factor." Hah, you must be OLD. Errr..... okay, let's get back to the questions.

Yes, I'm old. By your standards I'm ancient.

The wisdom factor that is supposed to come with age is highly overrated. More often than not that much vaunted wisdom translates into the knowledge that doing something you really want to do is going to hurt like hell.

So, in short, 'nam was like many moments of boredom, with intervals of life-threatening danger in between?

Yeah, kind of/sort of, but not exactly. It was what it was. It isn't something I'm terribly comfortable talking about.

Okay, if talking about 'nam makes you this uncomfortable, some things must have shocked you horribly. I promise not to talk about 'nam again in this interview.

There are things about the Nam that do cause an emotional reaction when I think or talk about them. More importantly, unless a person has been to war they have a tendancy to judge based on their particular sense of reality which has been cultivated by their culture, the movies they watch and the books or texts they read. A couple of years ago I was listening to an extremely liberal talk show down home. The moderator, one of those I'm so damned smart folk, was making statements about combat and the military that were absolutely wrong. I called in and told her a truth. (No, I didn't get ugly or smart.) She cut me off and told her listeners that I need to check into a mental ward. Her words to me aren't the issue. I told her an absolute truth. Her reality made her dismiss it without thought.
That's life though. Everyone judges through the filters of their own existence. More often than not their existences are extremely narrow.

Referring to your "Nam experience".... That's really true. For example, most people who were denying the Armenian genocide of 1915 didn't look at the obvious effects of the incident. Some who even recognized the situation took it for nothing.
That's a very common thing. The writers of history rarely lived it, have only second and third hand knowledge of it, and filter it through the supposed reality of their experience. No two people see something the same way. Ask any cop that questions witnesses to an accident or a crime.

That last thing you said about being able to be free without restricting anyone else's freedom reminds me of something my brother said about freedom of health. He made a comparison of fat people to smokers. He said that fat people are an endangerment to society, so why are they more socially acceptable than smokers? I would've said that it's because one person's weight doesn't affect anyone else's health, and smoking affects other people's health, but there has been some evidence that fat people, because of their high influential power within their kids at a young age, make their kids imitate their bad eating habits. How do you feel about all this?

Well, I'm fat and I smoke and, though admitedly biased, I think your brother is wrong for a lot of reasons. Check this out.

Of course parents influence their children. Peers influence peers. Entertainment icons influence fans. Poverty breeds improper nutrition and poor eating habits. Ignorance breeds poor eating habits. Two job families breed poor eating habits. Junk food and candy company advertising promotes poor eating habits. There is a lot more that I could say about both weight and smoking. It is all pretty futile though. It seems to be an unfortunate truth that there is a concentrated effort to engineer society into a place where individuality, free thought and simple freedom doesn't exist. It makes me almost happy that I am no longer young.

Thanks for the interview, Buffalo!

My pleasure, Flora. Thanks for asking.

Free speech doesn't come free, especially at ChristianForums.Com

... in many places. However, a prime example on the web which you have complete access to is http://www.christianforums.com/. We'll explore their sillyness through my chronicles there.

Recently, I was supposedly very offensive in my introduction at ChristianForums.com, according to one kindly user who sent me this PM:

Hi! We wish to inform you that your report of a post in the forum New Member Intros - KnightOfArabia 16-2-2008 has been reviewed and acted upon by Staff.
Please reply to this PM if you have any questions.

I wonder what was so offensive about this:

Lol I checked my PM's and someone actually reported THIS thread.

Anyway, thanks for the welcoming.

Because this didn't seem very offensive to me. You decide:

The Knight has arrived!


Well, as you can see, my username is KnightOfArabia. I got the idea from the Kamelot song Nights of Arabia, which is a really awesome song.

My name is Flora Korkis, and I am a 17-year-old Armenian/Turkish/Arabic citizen of Canada. I was born in Batnayah, Mosul, Iraq on December 27th, 1990.

I'm an Atheist. I came here mainly to read more on you, but I guess I'll add more just so I can make this post a little more worthwhile.

I am the Founder and President of Aftermath, a nation-to-nation and local violence awareness group here in humble little Ontario (okay, maybe not little since it carries over a third of the Canadian population).

I love music. I think it has an amazing power to move us in so many directions. I love art. I feel the last dignified job in this world is being an artist.

I want people to think of me as an artist... as someone who was always creative and well-spirited about what I do. I want people to remember me for my ideas, and for all the hard work I put into Aftermath. I want people to remember that I ran this one woman show of a life of mine ON MY OWN. I did everything of value in my life up to this point on my own.

That's all.

Tell me about yourselves, too. I'd love it.

What the fuck was so offensive about that? Did I not kiss enough ass there?

I was also very offensive with my words, according to yet another kindly user.

Hello KnightOfArabia:

I'm , and I'm a "New member intro" mod, and I'm coming to you to let you know that I have edited a post of yours
Quote:
How the hell could you refuse a beard? :lol:

- removing the word hell because it violates the rule Words which are not censored but are considered violations. as explained here:

Usage of the following, in other than Biblical context:

damn
hell
bastard
ass

will result in staff edits and infractions.

Please take this time and read our CF rules.

The way this works is, we extend grace the first time, we then hand out warnings, after you have had a warning, we issue infractions, after 4 infracations in a 6 month period, you recieve a 30 day ban, after 8 infractions in a 6 month period, you recieve a permienent ban.

Welcome to the forum, and if you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.

Any communication about this report, will be added to the report found here.

Thank you...

The rest of that e-mail was deleted for user privacy.

So, I took the time to read the full-length CF rules on word infractions. Here it is, and please don't take them too seriously. They're so professional, it makes me jealous. In fact, I've taken the time to bold the parts which I deem most professional.

Words which are not censored, but are considered violations

Usage of the following, in other than Biblical context:

damn
hell
bastard
ass

will result in staff edits and infractions.

The improper usage of God, Jesus, or Christ is already covered in an existing rule, but such usage will result in a staff edit, and an infraction.

************************************************************************

If should be noted that staff still have some level of discretion, and infractions may not be automatic, especially in the case of new members, or possibly for the first violation.

The above is not considered a rule change, but more so a clarification of the existing rules, specifically in the case of words which are not censored, and how violations will be handled.

******************** Clarification ********************

Originally posted by Constance on December 3, 2007
Added to this
post by Tangeloper - Dec. 3, 2007
OK, cussing has been addressed under several different categories (blasphemy, triggering the filter, and non-filtered cussing). I'm readdressing it now to get rid of the inconsistencies between categories.

ALL instances of "cussing" will be moderated in a like manner. If reported, at minimum, a staff or member edit is required.

If someone posts "R-O-F-L-M-A-O" or "Hell!", moderators have the discretion to edit to "R-O-F-L" or "Heck!", or send an RFE, or warn, or infract, but at minimum it should be edited.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that "poop" is a horridly vile word. If a member posts p00p or p**p or poo-hoop or calls a member a [washmymouth][washmymouth][washmymouth][washmymouth]ybutthead,
mods will send an RFE, or warn, or infract, but at minimum it should be edited.

Heck, darn, shoot, etc, are OK. In regard to abbreviations like SNAFU or LMAO, first, care should be taken because sometimes people use these abbreviations without knowing what they mean. Enough research should be done to make sure that we don't give someone an infraction for using the word asinine, an innocent acronym, etc.
If a mod contacts you about an ambiguous acronym or word, please educate them and provide them with information about the word or phrase.

In Summary:
1) All word violations are to be treated
similarly.
2) Mods have discretion as to how they are treated.
3) All instances that are reported will at minimum be member or staff edited.

Professionalism is clearly at the heart of CF! Kudos to you for keeping that dirty third-grade-level demonism out of our hearts and minds!

I was very rude to CatholicSue at one point, and I shall thank the kind folks at CF for challenging my behaviour. I can't just copy and paste the entire message for you to feel wholly fulfilled, so here is the thread that they made on me (seriously, they love me that much. Ewww creepers). http://christianforums.com/t6881817-new-member-intros-knightofarabia-16-2-2008.html After all, CatholicSue was right - Atheists are the only ones persecuting Christians, and the other way around never happens! Look, there's an Atheist trying to destroy the 10 Commandments! Kill the heathen!

Here's the general ChristianForums.Com Rules. Again, the most professional parts have been bolded:

The names or titles of God, including Jesus Christ and the Persons of the
Trinity (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit), in any language, are not to be used as
expletives or interjections or in an abusive, mocking, or insulting way.
Sharing of information about one's beliefs, for instance by quoting Bible
verses or witnessing, is encouraged. Honest debate and discussion regarding the
existence and nature of God is allowed and welcome. Mockery of Christians, Christians beliefs, and the Christian God are not.
You will not promote any faith, belief, or religion other than Nicene Christianity. Promotion of Satanism and occultism is strictly prohibited. Promotion is defined as encouragement of the progress, growth, or acceptance of something including advertising and publicity.
Flaming, baiting, trolling, or feeding trolls is not allowed. This also applies to groups. In other words, play nice, don't hurt others, nor call them names.
If you think you are being flamed, choose *not* to be offended, but instead take a break, and communicate, rather than escalating or accusing others.
Defamation is not allowed.
Harassment of another member is not allowed.
Threads which are off topic for the individual forums are not allowed, and substantial derails of threads are not looked upon in a favorable fashion.
Congregational Forums wishing to remain safe havens may choose to limit debate to members of their own denomination, insist that all posts conform to their creed etc.
Age and or gender restrictions are to be respected.
Reasonable confidentiality will be respected by Staff and Members, alike. Issues with staff decisions should be taken to the staff member, then the reconciliation team, period. Don't post them, don't PM them to others, don't take them to Lee.
Do not say racist or sexist things. If the swear filter is activated, edit your post, don't try to bypass it. Don't post graphics or text you would not be comfortable sharing with someone's grandmother.
Don't break the law, don't violate copyright, threaten others, or do or promote anything illegal.
Don't spam in threads or sigs, don't promote get rich quick schemes anywhere on the
site.
Use the brain God gave you. Think before you post. Think about how your post may affect someone else.

I honestly don't even know where to start with this wonderful information. Free speech clearly entitles restricted speech! Also, telling me how to feel saves me plenty of time. I've got no need to feel anymore! Also, I'm going to be some big giant douche on the net and take everything that's said to me from a stranger 100% seriously, and maybe cry, and hopefully, kill myself.

In other words, you can go fuck yourselves, you fascist bastards!

"You may not present these ideas in my classroom or in the school"

Before I talk to you folks about what happened to me today in religion class (yes, I'm forced to take this crap) with my teacher AKA the Religion Department Head Ms. Fernandes, you must bear in mind that I go to a Catholic school.

Let me tap into my memory...

I was in religion class. I was finished my work. My teacher finished talking about recycling. Things got quiet. I started a conversation with her.

I started talking to her about my group, Aftermath, and I told her about an event with Linda McQuag, an author. We talked about one of her old books, Shooting the hippo : death by deficit and other Canadian myths. I talked to her about a book of hers that I was going to discuss with Linda, which is Holding the bully's coat : Canada and the U.S. empire.

Then, I eventually mentioned that I couldn't get to the first-mentioned book because I had to go through The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki and Prescription: Medicide by Jack Kevorkian. If you don't know who Jack Kevorkian is, click here. She told me how sick Jack made her, and then we got into the whole euthanasia and assisted-suicide thing. As we went along talking, she acted as if I was a little child and said, "I know what it's like to be fascinated with ideas." She also said, "But I'm 10 years older than you and I have 4 degrees." She also ticked me off when she said this: "You may not present these ideas in my classroom or in the school." Because apparently, Catholic school students ain't allowed to do no learnin'.

Baloney. She has no right to act like she's better than me since she is a sorry excuse for a teacher anyway, and she has no right to dictate what I talk about in the school with other people. I don't care if I can't talk about it in class, but what I say out of her supervision is none of her business. What, does she expect me to report on my conversations to her so she knows what I've talked about?

4 degrees, years wasted studying at college, and still a sorry excuse for a so-called educated person. I won't even start conversations with her anymore so as to not offend her weak, poor and fragile soul. Hell, not talking to her at all would be the best step.

Dekker and Yeats ~ Poets

There are long, drawn-out moments in which we find time to observe in others what we see in ourselves, for we must come to understand that all humans share in common quite a few things. Burning passions or more hidden and subtle desires exist in every person and cannot be entirely avoided. Some choose to ignore or suppress these natural inclinations, while others embrace it and let it be their cynosure in all aspects of life. Either way, the dictations of the heart preside in all of us and the only marked difference is how we choose to let it define who we are and our perspective of the world.

At a time in England’s history, when exploration for gold and glory paralleled the exploration of new religious doctrines, by people who were constantly seeking higher satisfaction, Elizabethan writer Thomas Dekker also found in himself what was being reflected in society. He was never content with his work. He was relentless, to the point of careless mediocrity, and he concluded that humans “are ne’er like angels till our passion dies.” When Dekker speaks of angels, he refers to the goodness that lies within every person, and our ability to transcend our self-destructive desires. As angels, Thomas Dekker implies that man would be free from evil and pain, from passions that take hold of us and bind us in chains. A similar point of view concerning human nature is Rousseau’s idea that, “man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.” As with Dekker, Rousseau finds man’s natural desires are somehow the cause of narrow-minded, selfish, and limited thinking. In his age, Dekker saw passions as misdirected and the source of every flaw in susceptible people. Thomas Dekker believes that our passions represent everything that is condemned. However, he knows that our passions will never go away, thus humans will never be angels. Perfection and purity will never be attained. We are confined, as humans, to moral corruption and mortality.

What about the good that can come from passion? While Dekker believed it contributed to the loss of godly principles, William Butler Yeats, a notable dramatist in the 20th Century, believed emotions allowed us to connect with our spirituality. He goes further to say that man’s intuitive logic comes from the “heart”, or rather the deepest part of our souls. “The only business of the head in the world is to bow to ceaseless obeisance to the heart”, depicts the notion that everyone is initially guided by their emotional feelings, and that humans observe the world through their passions, and desires. It also hints at the idea that it is not up to humans to prove everything or to know everything through mere logic; our intellectual and philosophical thinking is to be guided by our morality.

Thomas Dekker believed passion leads to all the evil and suffering humans are subjected to and that we should strive to rid ourselves of it, while Yeats believes that this same passion is something humans should accept, and something we should let guide even our logic. Both recognize that if our understanding of human nature is correct, our passions will never leave us. Humans have learned that whether passions are a blight or treasure, no one is ever alone in their affections, aspirations, and ambitions.

God listens...

Why, I never knew!

Articles on Atheism and why to denounce religion by Ethical Atheist

Look at the menu to the right. On the links section, you'll see Ethical Atheist as one of them. I go on this site every day (I'm obsessed) and, using logic and reason, rather than religion, a lot of the people on that site are able to answer my questions. For anyone considering becoming an Atheist or Agnostic, this site is definitely for you. However, here's some material from EA to get you started off. I'm sure these basics will lead you elsewhere.

• What's an Atheist? A Theist? An Agnostic?
• What's an Ethical Atheist?
• Ethical Atheist's Ten Commandments
• Biblical Basis for a Young Earth
• Women and the Bible - this should enrage just about any and every woman to denouncing her Christianity.
• Questions for God

I Will Not Go Away
By the Ethical Atheist

I walk among you. I live next door.
My office is right down the hall from yours.
My child sits next to yours in school.

I live my life by the Golden Rule...
that most basic principle of ethical behavior
that people have followed through the ages.
I treat others as I would like to be treated.
So simple, yet rarely followed...

I practice tolerance.
I do not discriminate by race or gender.
I strive to make the world a better place.
I seek answers to the unknown and
attempt to educate all with answers to the known.

I view the universe in a different way than you
for I am a scientist, an educator,
a free thinker, an atheist.

While you attribute the great unknown mysteries to your God,
I use reason, logic and scientific methods in search
of answers to the as yet unexplained.

This should not be reason that we cannot
live together... practicing tolerance.
Yet, if your opinion differs, so be it!

For I will continue on my path...
I will find answers.
I will educate, and
I will not go away.

These are all the articles I'm listing. Be sure to read the articles that these pages link to. Also, please feel free to use this post as an open forum for commenting on Atheism, Agnosticism, the ethics of Atheism and Agnosticism, and about Ethical Atheist.

A new beginning

I didn't sleep 'til 6 AM today.

From about 3-6, or I think it was 4-6 (I was too tired to remember), me and my brother were discussing everything from consumerism to the higher power. I think the higher power part started by him discussing how his friend Raffi has this Atheist cousin who likes to go online and find bad things about Christianity just to point it out to him. Why he'd bring up that story to me, I don't know. I don't recall researching the 'net to find information about Christianity in order to use it against my brother. Hell, I don't even recall mocking Christianity to begin with - I'll mock most Christians though, in addition to most other religious followers.

He brought up the incident about where I made fun of the pope (see "Mortal Kombat, Vatican style"), and doing that is supposedly "offending the Christian faith." I had to explain numerous times before he fully understood that there's a difference between mocking the Christian faith and mocking Christian leaders or Christians. Also, I recall poking fun at followers of all faiths, so there's no discrimination involved. Don't you hate it when the majority falsely believes that they're being discriminated against, or even stranger, opressed? I mean, I love my brother, don't get me wrong. Some of the most valuable times in my life have been spent with him, and it may have been that he was as tired during that time in the morning as I was (in fact, at one point he said, "believe, don't you"), but there's shit that he says that does not make any sense at all or doesn't have connections to what he said previously.

Onto another topic of discussion with him, we talked about the year ending, and if we actually got some things done this year. I'll admit, I was a bit defensive after I said, "Shit, I got nothing done," and so I immediately switched over from that to, "Well, at least I got most of my plans for my nation-to-nation violence group started." He looked at me with a hint of disappointment. "Flora, you can say you'll do everything in the world, but to get that shit done is something else entirely. What are plans without action? There are 3 steps to getting things done: plan, action, goal. You have the plan, but until you get the action done, it's not really an accomplishment to me."

He's definitely right. What's a plan without action? He also proceeded to tell me about my blogging, and how it's a waste of time since he thinks I'm not doing anything (in his opinion). I've actually gotten plenty done, my plans have been finished for a long while, and the action was already in process. I feel I've accomplished something important, but yet, I can't help but feel a bit empty. I can't figure it out, but it's a new year, and a new beginning.

I have a new year's tip for everyone: don't make the mistake of getting nothing done, folks. Don't wind up feeling empty. But even if that does happen, remember this: the end of something old is the beginning of something new. Make 2008 the year of you, and don't give up without a fight.

Mortal Kombat, Vatican style

Ever since Cardinal Ratzinger from Germany was named Pope, controversy has followed his very footsteps. We didn't blame him for his participation in Hitler Youth as a child; we can't expect him to not do something that was legally compulsory. We didn't blame him for his "mistaken words" against Mohammed to the Muslims. And the Canadians certainly didn't blame him when he said that Canada was hell-bent due to it's legalization of gay marriage.

I never had many problems with personally, though I've had many with him religiously, but after reading on his new "plans" to fight Satanism head-on, there is no possible way that I can ever, in my lifetime, have the capacity to take him seriously. Here are some exerpts from an article regarding the matter:

The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of
Satanism.

Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.

They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."

Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight
demonic possession.

The initiative was revealed by 82-year-old Father Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican "exorcistinchief," to the online Catholic news service Petrus.

"Thanks be to God, we have a Pope who has decided to fight the Devil head-on," he said.

And my mom told me that Mortal Kombat could never become a reality. What a lying bitch!

Here was another really funny tidbit that I loved:

The Vatican is particularly concerned that young people are being exposed to the influence of Satanic sects through rock music and the Internet.

Seriously folks, it's time to step up. We act like we've gotten rid of the biggest terrorists, but if that were true, why do we have an incredibly crazy pope and an incredibly dumb president heavily impacting the lives of people across the globe? If people did their research more before they made final decisions as to who they want to spend their lives being subordinates to, then we wouldn't have to deal with this kind of shit. We wouldn't have to be the workers of the real terrorists, and we wouldn't have to feel cultural inferiority complexes because we wouldn't have bad leaders making us look like asses. And most of all, at least they'd be able to come up with more reasonable and original targets than the internet and rock music.

False Followers of God

Today was certainly a very interesting day in the fight of Christians VS non-Christians.

The school I attend is divided into 5 periods of 75 minutes. We're in class by 8:15AM, and dismissed at 2:43PM.

During period 1, I finished writing my notes, and had about 20 minutes to burn. So what did I decide to do? Go on one of the computers, ofcourse!

As soon as I logged onto the school system, I clicked on the internet explorer icon. Things were working normally. Then, I typed in www.ethicalatheist.com... and bam! The school blocked the site out.

So, in my fit of annoyance, I turned over to my friend, who we'll call Sarah, to tell her how annoyed I was that the school blocked out Ethical Atheist for the obvious reason that it was an Atheist website (most other websites that are approved by the board are "pro-God"). I told her how ignorant it was that the school would block out the website for that reason, and then, it happened...

Now, I'm not trying to put a label on all Christians or believers of gods here, but everyone in my class was practically attacking me just for my complaint on the ignorance of the school on behalf of Christians. They said things like, "Well it's a Catholic school, and we believe in God, so ofcourse they'll block it out!" Really, does the belief in God allow closed-mindedness? I'm sure that's why he gave you free wills, isn't it?

But that's not what really bugged me. It was what would happen later that really ended up making me try to restrain myself from laughing too hard.

Fast-forward to period 5. I'm in cosmetology class, in the school salon, and just drying my nails off from the red nail polish that I freshly applied. Then comes a girl from period 1, who was the one who made that Catholic school point. She had just basically told the girls some lies in the class the moment she walked in, and then they started asking me all of these questions and assuming too much crap about me.

One of the questions I was asked was by the class drunk, also affectionately known by our teacher as "Drunkie." "If there is no God, then how did everything begin?" Look, I don't know the answer to that question, but I'm not going to pretend I know and assume that everything magically appeared. The laws of physics says that's physically impossible. How can a massless creature create mass? Physics says even creatures of mass can't create mass, so if you honestly can give me a decent answer as to how a massless creature can create mass, then I will be completely and utterly shocked.

Amongst all of the questions laid the usual bitchiness of the cosmetology class. Some girls were saying that they wouldn't accept me because I have no belief in God. Funny how they expect me to listen to their theories, while they automatically took mine and threw them away without ever observing them. One may call that loyalty, but I call it ignorance and cowardice.

The fun didn't end there, however. Right after class, I went to my locker to get my things so I could leave. I was still trying to contain myself, but then one of the girls from class came and did something rude and stupid. She got her friends to point me out along with her and chant loudly in the halls, "Flora doesn't believe in God!" in a very obnoxious manner. All she really ended up doing is making Christians look like morons. Somehow, I'm not shocked.

Star Wars, or your Eternal Soul?

Oh... My.... R2-D2...

You just have to read this article. I pissed myself in the process.

http://www.ooze.com/toolofsatan/

The picture really did it for me.

Ontario's Efforts to Remove Religious Education

Firstly, I go to a Catholic school, and, not of my own will, but that of my mother's. Strange, I am still not completely against it, though I am not a believer of God as a superior deity.

It was during education week that this issue was brought up. The theme was to "Show your Christianity to stop the bill from passing." "The bill" refers to Ontario's effort to remove religious education within the province, which, as many would agree, would be a good thing. However, I do not wish for religious education to just be eliminated, but also replaced.

You see, a few years ago, I had some bad experiences in a public school down in the Southern region of the province. During my stay, I realized a few things about the differences between religious and public schools; some positive, some negative. To my surprise, the positives and the negatives added up to a neutral point. Here's what I realized:

Positives of going to a public school versus a religious school:
You waste less time learning crap you'll never use, unless you become a priest or some sort of religious authority.
Negatives of going to a public school versus a religious school:
Your experience in school is somewhat more daunting because of the fact that religious schools implement structures such as the Golden Rule of respect heavily, while public schools do not implement such rules at all.

This is my remedy: completely eliminate religious programs within Ontario, but replace them with ethics classes, or implement a structure into all schools that bring out the inner humanitarian in all of us. Not only does this usually cost less, but it's less of a waste of time. Besides, we're going to end up learning the same shit anyway, minus the whole God aspect.

Thanks for reading, and..
Ciao!

Christmas is a Croc-O-Shit

It’s the most wonderful time of the year.

No, I’m not talking about that time after tax season; I’m talking about the time before it.

Christmas is a great time of the year when Jesus was born to convert Pagans and Jews; when they lie that old, morbidly obese white men ride on magical flying sleighs; powered by magical flying reindeer (one of which has a glowing nose) to pronounce the great magics of God, where said man then proceeds to break into your house and put presents under Christmas trees (which we also know as the “dead pine trees” lie), giving lots of presents, and eating so much after 2 weeks that you can’t even see yourself shitting on the toilet anymore.

We all know that Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th some 2000-ish years ago, because there is no possibility. It wasn’t lied about because they wanted to celebrate his birthday a little earlier than April 1st, and a lot researchers would happen to agree with that theory. And certainly, the Church would certainly sink to the level of converting Pagans and converting Jews. Think they care about you knowing the truth or even about Jesus himself? They only want more recruits for their army of shitheads.

Next, Santa was not some big fat sleigh-riding white man who owns magical reindeers, elves, or some sweetass mansion in the North Pole, and neither did he ever have anything to do with Saint Nicholas. Santa Claus is a derivative of Sinterklaas, who came from the concept of Saint Nicholas. Saint Nicholas was a Turkish man from Asia Minor, specifically Turkey who was just really nice to everyone, saved 3 girls from lives of prostitution, and gave stuff to poor children in his village.

Imagine the modern-day perception of Christmas, which includes all the stuff said above. Did you know that the only part of those descriptions that actually is any part of Christmas is Jesus? Guess what the real holiday that includes Santa, presents, and immense amounts of turkey is: YULETIDE! Not only that, but notice how the Church “stole” the holiday of the Pagans they hate so much: “Germanic pagans celebrated Yule from late December to early January on a date determined by a lunar calendar.” Did you know that the original concept of the Christmas tree also came from German Pagans? But we’re sure it was all just some really big coincidence.

I’m just hoping you now realize what a croc-o-shit it all really is.

Speaking of croc-o-shits, you know what really grinds my gears? Buying someone coupons for a gift. You want to know what two things that says to me?
1. I went to a store and got you nothing.
2. You’re too stupid to know what to buy, so I’m limiting you to 1 store.

Until next time, ciao folks!

In a world where God does not exist

I thought about this the other day, and asked some people a question regarding the issue, but I didn't get many good answers. So now, I ask you, if it were proven that God does not exist, how would that change your life and why? How do you think that would change the world?

Please don't respond to this post saying "but he does exist!" or your comment will be deleted. Thanks!